[quote author=“tifosiv122”]
Not XP’s fault…user fault. I’ve never had spyware on my system.

1. Don’t open attachments you don’t know what they are
2. Don’t agree to download spyware ridden apps like weatherbug

I wish it were that simple.  I have not installed *any* new applications with the exception of Warcraft 3, Norton Antivirus, and Ad-Aware (which caught the offending software).  I certainly haven’t installed any applications of sketchy origin, and I haven’t even set up the machine to work with any email accounts yet.  I did nothing to invite a piece of spyware to walk into my system.

I don’t want to come off as rude, but the fact that I’m also a Mac user doesn’t make me completely ignorant of what to do and what not to do on a PC, let alone any computer in general.  I’m actually a computer science major, and I’ve only been “mac-only” for 2 years now.  Before that, I was a devoted Windows user, and I use PCs in most of my classes.

—smashedapart

[quote author=“smashedapart”][quote author=“tifosiv122”]
Not XP’s fault…user fault. I’ve never had spyware on my system.

1. Don’t open attachments you don’t know what they are
2. Don’t agree to download spyware ridden apps like weatherbug

I wish it were that simple.  I have not installed *any* new applications with the exception of Warcraft 3, Norton Antivirus, and Ad-Aware (which caught the offending software).  I certainly haven’t installed any applications of sketchy origin, and I haven’t even set up the machine to work with any email accounts yet.  I did nothing to invite a piece of spyware to walk into my system.

I don’t want to come off as rude, but the fact that I’m also a Mac user doesn’t make me completely ignorant of what to do and what not to do on a PC, let alone any computer in general.  I’m actually a computer science major, and I’ve only been “mac-only” for 2 years now.  Before that, I was a devoted Windows user, and I use PCs in most of my classes.

—smashedapart

Smashedapart, I didn’t call you ignorant, but it is not possible to get files installed on your PC unless you did it yourself or went to sites that use ActiveX…either way, you must chalk it up to user fault, not windows XP.

Erik

[quote author=“tifosiv122”]
The only reason Macs don’t have this issue is because the Apple market is not big enough for spyware companies to target.

Erik

Cheap shot…nice one.

[quote author=“tifosiv122”]
Smashedapart, I didn’t call you ignorant, but it is not possible to get files installed on your PC unless you did it yourself or went to sites that use ActiveX…either way, you must chalk it up to user fault, not windows XP.

Erik

Sasser…
No need to do it yourself there.

[quote author=“tmkt”][quote author=“tifosiv122”]
Smashedapart, I didn’t call you ignorant, but it is not possible to get files installed on your PC unless you did it yourself or went to sites that use ActiveX…either way, you must chalk it up to user fault, not windows XP.

Erik

Sasser…
No need to do it yourself there.

Then your leaving yourself exposed…no firewall, again, user error. All spyware/viruses can be prevented.

Erik

User error?
More like OS error..No need to make excuses for MS..

Many OS’es out there that you don’t need to hide behind a firewall

Uh huh.  I have Active-X disabled in IE by default, and it prompts me before running scripts.  Again, not my fault.

Also, if I’m not mistaken, the installation of the sasser worm can be done simply by opening an email.  Firewalls won’t save you.

Listen, I’m not trying to debate which operating system is better.  The honest truth is, if Windows XP weren’t responsible for the problems which people are having, then I wouldn’t have had to install 26 patches and updates (19 of which were critical) upon starting up my machine for the first time.

—smashedapart

[quote author=“smashedapart”]

Also, if I’m not mistaken, the installation of the sasser worm can be done simply by opening an email.  Firewalls won’t save you.

Actually, to get Sasser you don’t even need to do anything..
Zero..Ziltch..
It does all the work…and just keeps sending itself around..and firewalls’ don’t always help..
I have a firewall at home, firewall at work..
Some coworker I’m guessing didn’t have a firewall at home, so when he brought his computer in and connected to the work network, sasser had a fun time atacking my machine.. Rebooting it 5 times within an hour.
Made it a little difficult to go download the patch with my computer continually rebooting.

Windows is the most exploited OS because it is the most widely used OS.
The example of someone bringing the Sasser into the network is again, user error…if he didn’t bring the virus in, it couldn’t circulate.

I have 9 PCs at home, non of which are infected with any adware, spyware, or virus…am I just lucky? No…I keep my systems safe and secure.

I still have access to the internet, and I can remote to my systems using VPN…still no problems.

I am not saying any of you are dumb…I am just saying it all can be prevented.

Erik

“This worm scans random IP addresses for exploitable systems.  When one is found, the worm exploits the vulnerable system, by overflowing a buffer in LSASS.EXE.  It creates a remote shell on TCP port 9996.  Next it creates an FTP script named cmd.ftp on the remote host and executes it.  This FTP script instructs the target victim to download and execute the worm (with the filename #_up.exe as aforementioned) from the infected host.  The infected host accepts this FTP traffic on TCP port 5554.

The worm spawns multiple threads, some of which scan the local class A subnet, others the class B subnet, and others completely random subnets.  The destination port is TCP 445”

Open ports - infected computer.
If your ports were blocked, sasser cannot get in, simple as that.
You can argue all day long, on XP its possible to remain safe if your protected…it’s like wearing your seatbelt and having an airbag…nothings perfect, but its possible to remain safe.

Erik

True, but if the OS didn’t have security holes to begin with, there would be no issue.

[quote author=“tifosiv122”]I am just saying it all can be prevented.

I agree with you on this point, however, I think our ideas about the subject of responsibility differ drastically.  I put the responsibility of prevention on the manufacturer of the operating system.  You put responsiblity on the end user…and let’s face it, your average end user is *not* going to be intelligent enough about how their system works to properly protect it.

Windows might be the most exploited because it is the most popular, but in that same respect, doesn’t having the most popular OS on the market put some responsibility into the hands of Microsoft to help keep its customer base secure?  Just a thought…

—smashedapart

Ding!...and that’s the end of round one...

True, but if the OS didn’t have security holes to begin with, there would be no issue.

[quote author=“tifosiv122”]I am just saying it all can be prevented.

I agree with you on this point, however, I think our ideas about the subject of responsibility differ drastically.  I put the responsibility of prevention on the manufacturer of the operating system.  You put responsiblity on the end user…and let’s face it, your average end user is *not* going to be intelligent enough about how their system works to properly protect it.

Windows might be the most exploited because it is the most popular, but in that same respect, doesn’t having the most popular OS on the market put some responsibility into the hands of Microsoft to help keep its customer base secure?  Just a thought…

—smashedapart

You need to understand, nobody is perfect. Linux has holes, as does Apple (the just had one through Quicktime)...if more hackers were trying to exploit holes in both systems…they would find them…maybe not as many as with Windows, but they will find them…

Windows is also at a disadvantage because most Newbies use it…you don’t see a 70 year old grandmother buying her first PC asking for the lastest distro of Linux…so hackers know they can easily get on their systems and have fun…

Taking into account general user lack of protection on their part and the sheer # of Windows systems on the market make Windows too good for hackers to ignore. No matter how much MS will try they will never fix all the holes…

1. There is no such thing as a perfect program.
2. There is no such thing as a completely secure network.

Those are the 2 things people need to learn…and then protect themselves.

I don’t mean this as something directed to you, this should be a general lesson/warning to others….Protect your system and your network and you will be fine, with Windows or any OS.

Erik

Trust me, I have no problems with understanding how imperfect the computer world is, and I never attempted to state that either Linux or Mac OS are perfect, however, they do have a distinct advantage over Windows: 30+ years of development. UNIX is a far better and more secure operating system as the direct result of years of revisions. The current iteration of Windows has only been around since 1995. It’s going to be a while before Windows reaches the level of clarity that UNIX posesses.

[quote author=“tifosiv122”]Windows is also at a disadvantage because most Newbies use it…you don’t see a 70 year old grandmother buying her first PC asking for the lastest distro of Linux…so hackers know they can easily get on their systems and have fun…

You have a point, albeit an absurd one. This goes back to what I said earlier in this thread. If the developer were to take responsibility for securing the operating system, a 70 year old grandmother wouldn’t have to worry about protecting her system or her network.

[quote author=“tifosiv122”]Taking into account general user lack of protection on their part and the sheer # of Windows systems on the market make Windows too good for hackers to ignore. No matter how much MS will try they will never fix all the holes…

While we’re on this topic (again), consider that Linux has a very large market share of the corporate networks in the world. If market share were the answer, then why hasn’t anyone exploited Linux? After all, corporate networks are where the money is, right? If it were just as easy as tackling Windows, then why hasn’t it happened? I would go out on a limb and wager to guess that it just simply is not as easy as you make it out to be. The reason? UNIX. It’s the same reason why the Mac OS hasn’t been, and probably won’t be, seriously compromised.

[quote author=“tifosiv122”]I don’t mean this as something directed to you, this should be a general lesson/warning to others….Protect your system and your network and you will be fine, with Windows or any OS.

Erik

This attitude is one of the primary reasons I decided to get out of the Windows world and why I never went anywhere close to installing Linux. It’s this sort of elitist attitude that hampers the adoption of technology in peoples’ everyday lives. If your average consumer weren’t made to feel so afraid of computers and the like, then perhaps technology would have the chance to become more pervasive…it could change the world, and it could make life much simpler. Think about it.

Saddling Joe Blow with the responsibility of being technologically astute will never work. People don’t want to know how this stuff works, and they don’t want to have to babysit it to make it work. That’s something which people like you and I need to remember. Just because we know what we’re doing, and we enjoy learning about it, doesn’t mean that everyone will feel the same way. The idea of “maintaining” a machine does not sit well with the average consumer. They just want it to work, and I’ve got to say that I can’t see a problem with that. It’s a simple request.

I think that people have become complacent with the idea that computers inherently do NOT work out of the box. When people feel that it’s alright to be sold a $2000+ piece of electronics that is, in essence, broken, then the market, as well as the industry, has a serious problem.

Ding!...and at the start of round two, both fighters come out swinging…