[quote author=“AndyMac”][quote author=“writetovarun”]If i had a choice i’d rather want to be able to vote between 2 people than not to have that choice.. right now and for another few years we dont have anyone to rule Britain. Only Blair .. I mean how screwed up is that !!!!!!!
I suppose there is that but when the choice is Dumb and Dumber it’s tough… Really tough.
Plus we are still bound by that electoral college BS. I live in Missouri which always votes Republican. So basically my vote goes in the crapper thanks to the electoral college. Yes, I still plan to vote, there is always the hope that this year Missouri will see the light.
I know what u mean.
:D :D
Personally i think Clinton was an amazing leader. He was such a great great speaker which just stood him out. Had a league of his own. Screwed up surely but that had nothing to do with the decisions he made, it was just something very personal. He was such a world leader and its hard to imagine someone replacing his charisma.
[quote author=“OnMyWayUp”]Bush
Kerry favors abortion and gay-rights… anyone that sick should is no way be allowed in office. This country is already more F***ed up than it needs to be. :|
Perhaps is would be interesting for you to investigate whether there are more or less abortions under Bush than Clinton?
It always amazes me how the religious right goes for Bush. I mean, sure they get lip service about abortion, but they don’t really get a reduction in the numbers and they are extremely unlikely to get Roe v Wade overturned. In the meantime, they get increased poverty, greater application of the death penalty, more war, etc.
I spent last week in London watching ITV and BBC news. I was pretty disapointed with their coverage.
The main thing they both did was “average American” interviews. I’m don’t believe their sample was at all representative. The people they talked to just parroted the standard talking points without any of their owns thoughts mixed in. Most of the people I know have a far more sophisticated point of view than those that were interviewed.
Wasting a vote or sending a message? I’m voting for Michael Peroutka of the Constitution Party. Bush is a closet Christian at best, and Kerry is way too wishy washy to be my leader. They really (and I mean really) need to open this up to more than just two choices, IMHO.
I realize my guy will not win, but my conscience will not allow me to vote for the “lesser of two evils”. Peroutka is a true class act. We all deserve a guy with character like his.
[quote author=“TruthSeeker”]Wasting a vote or sending a message?
If the US had instant runoff elections, you would not be faced with this dilemma.
I’m voting for Michael Peroutka of the Constitution Party.
In my opinion, he is the scariest of the bunch. I see him as working to impose Christian values on the country. That’s great for Christians I guess, but not so good for the rest of us.
It’s also funny to hear the “Kerry is wishy washy” charge. Kerry is a politician like Bush - there’s always political maneuvering in politics. The list of times Bush has flip-flopped is impressive, the two big ones I like are:
- against, then for a dept of homeland security
- againts, then for a 9/11 commission
[quote author=“TruthSeeker”]Wasting a vote or sending a message?
Sending a message to who? I am going to do whatever *I* can to make sure Shrub doesn’t get re-elected. To that end I am not going to throw a vote away on someone who can’t possibly win because that takes a vote away from Kerry.
Perhaps it’s just that our messages are different. My message is “No More Bush”. And with any luck my message won’t only get heard but will also become reality.
I checked out http://www.peroutka2004.com and I can tell you there is no way in hell I would vote for this man. The only issue I found that I could agree with him on is the War in Iraq. We don’t belong there and never did.
[quote author=“grisjuan”]If the US had instant runoff elections, you would not be faced with this dilemma.
Agreed. I’d even settle for direct election of the President at this point. This electoral college nonsense is just that. Although, as a New Yorker, I don’t see nearly the number of political ads that a Floridian or Ohioan(?) sees. :D NY is “solid blue” and Schumer’s a shoe-in for reelection.
[quote author=“grisjuan”]It’s also funny to hear the “Kerry is wishy washy” charge.
It was a GOP charge that Kerry did little to fight against or explain away initially and it stuck with a lot of media help. I don’t like some of his positions but I do have a decent respect for the man. His testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in the early 70s and his involvement in the Iran-Contra and BCCI scandal investigations have convinced me that he has something of a backbone.
I was shocked to read this news article on BBC which said that people in america still want to vote for bush and they believe in his strategies more than anything .. I know most of the political stuff on BBC is absolute shit, but this was just out of the way ! :cry:
[quote author=“writetovarun”]I was shocked to read this news article on BBC which said that people in america still want to vote for bush and they believe in his strategies more than anything .. I know most of the political stuff on BBC is absolute shit, but this was just out of the way ! :cry:
From anecdotal experience, the people I know who are voting for Bush are doing so more for his social platform than his economic and foreign policy platform. Americans tend to take their religion extremely seriously. Remember that places like New England, Maryland and Utah were originally founded as sectarian havens. There’s been a lot of religious rhetoric to be heard from both sides trying to appeal to religious voters.
The other thing is that Americans don’t get the most objective and accurate news. There was little to no analysis as to whether or not we should even invade Iraq on the TV news and to this day there are an apalling number of people who think that Saddam was involved in some way with 9/11 or al Qaeda. The “sexed up dossier” thing for example didn’t become as big an issue here as it was there in the UK. There have been questions, but there hasn’t been the same sort of journalistic flap there was with the BBC. The big journalistic flap we’ve had (the Plame Affair) had to do with journalists leaking information on behalf of the government.
As a good Jew I should be voting for Kerry (most jews will vote for hitler if he is running on a Dem. ticket) and I hate how religious Bush is, but all my high-level Dem. friends (Senators, Congressmen, former Comptroller, etc) all tell me that they are voting for Bush because Kerry is an idiot.
I have to go with experience…one Senator I know (who wrote me a glowing reccomendation to get into Law School) would never vote Repub., this year he is…thats enough to scare me away from Kerry.
[quote author=“tifosiv122”]they are voting for Bush because Kerry is an idiot.
Care to share some of the your evidence for this assertion? I certainly does not match with my observations of the two men. For example, based on their ability to think on their feet, it seems to me that Kerry clearly outranks Bush.
[quote author=“tifosiv122”]...it seems to me that Kerry clearly outranks Bush.
I chalk this up to Kerry’s years having to play politics and sound good on TV/radio or to the press.
I’m voting for Bush. Kerry may be able to speak more eloquently, but I’ll take Bush’s ‘here’s how I really feel’ meandering speaking over Kerry’s polished brass anyday.
I’ve just been reading today about this whole ‘Kerry speaking with the UN Security Council’ stuff today, and it cements my biggest worry about Kerry: he’s speaking just the kind of message people want to hear; a practicing politician.
Arrg, don’t get me started. I’ve made up my mind, and I’m choosing what seems to be the lesser of two evils.
[quote author=“neilah”]...my biggest worry about Kerry: he’s speaking just the kind of message people want to hear; a practicing politician.
I’ve been following things pretty closely and it seems to me that the Bush white house plays politics with just about everything.
Let’s not hit Zarqawi before the invasion of Iraq because it will make it harder to sell the war. Let’s choose people to run the Iraq occupation based on their politics and not on their skills. Let’s oppose the 9/11 commission but then support it and its recommendations once the political pressure got too hot.
There are many areas where Kerry and Bush supporters can have a legitimate discussion about their guy’s policies, but Bush as the straight shooter and Kerry as the consummate politician is just not supported by the evidence in my opinion.
[quote author=“grisjuan”][quote author=“tifosiv122”]they are voting for Bush because Kerry is an idiot.
Care to share some of the your evidence for this assertion? I certainly does not match with my observations of the two men. For example, based on their ability to think on their feet, it seems to me that Kerry clearly outranks Bush.
Re-Read my post they are voting for Bush I have no evidence, I am relying on their personal knowledge of intimate dealings with the man.
do you think 9/11 built up because of bush? do you think the planning started right after he got into office?
remember the new president basically cleans up after the last.
as for the abortion issue. a LOT of republicans are strictly against it. you have to weigh the whole and not the single issues.
as of right now, i’d like to see how bush mops up snowballing problems. If you were in the army, would you really want a new chief officer that’ll probably need the next 3 months getting up to speed?
if we’re going to go into iraq, i’d like to see it done and finished. i’m sure the army would feel the same way.
