[quote author=“Drachen”]I agree, PPCs aren’t that stable. My point is that when you try to make a Palm do what a PPC does, you end up with a device that inherits the same sort of stability problems. The same thing is happening to cell phones.
True, but thats Sony’s thing…always on the edge of new technology…which is also why they have a bad reputation recently. For me, the PPC platform never made too much sense…it just didn’t seem right for a hand-held device…eh, I have issues.
I still think its a dead market…these hyped up PDAs at $500+ are just not big sellers anymore…I still think they should go back to the basics…color, thin, 1 week rechargable battery…thats it…Visor Edge but with color.
Boy, this thread got sticky real quick. As you all well know, I am a big fan of two things: Integration, and Flash memory (which will take over the world :twisted: )
I think that the cameras on cell phones will be more appealing in the next couple of years. 3.2mp or even 4mp will eventually be achieved, with focus and flash! Contact management is already seen in many phones. With the addition of MMC cards in phones, you will (long-term) see the fall of digicams.
I know Drachen and tifo think I am crazy when I talk like this, but you know I have always seen things in a more idealistic mindset. Why would you think this would never happen?
An example of what I just described is right here:
That little thing has a built in VPN client, Bluetooth, FM radio, MP3 player, MMC card slot, internet browser, 176x208 pixel screen, integrated digicam, a speakerphone, and fully Microsoft Office compliant. Best part is that it is also a phone. :wink:
It is only a matter of time before something like this turns mainstream.
[quote author=“TruthSeeker”]Contact management is already seen in many phones. With the addition of MMC cards in phones, you will (long-term) see the fall of digicams.
The fall of cameras? Please…I can really see professionals use a phone to take pictures for magazines and newspapers…can you imagine your wedding being shot on a phone?
Yes, eventually higher MP cameras will stop the novice user from owning a digi, but in no way can you possibly dream that cameras will be shelved for phone/cameras.
These things go through cycles and eventually end up back where they started…intergration usually doesn’t work out too well and people go back to the basics. TV/DVD/VCR combos dont sell well…etc…the PDA market was 10 times what it was now before they started to add all these extra features…basic/cheap sells more…eventually companies will pick up on this.
Yes, there will always be niche markets, but mainstream stuff like this won’t happen, IMO.
[quote author=“TruthSeeker”]I meant the average user, not high end.
Define average…i’d say more like novice. IMO anyone who had a 1MP when they first came out is not one to ditch a digicam for a phone…anyone who owns a 1-2MP now…yes, I agree they’d keep a phone camera.
If you ignore the radio, I’ve got a phone with the same specs clipped onto my belt as I type this - but with a much better text input method. The P800 (also similar specs) has been available for about 2 years now. Even the form-factor is old-hat. The Samsung SPH-A600 has been out for 8 months or so.
Tifo and I aren’t saying that integration is bad or won’t happen. It’s a lot more nuanced. Both of us have said flat-out that we will only look at PDA/phones. There’s a limit to good integration. A combination toaster, computer and beer cooler won’t work no matter how hard you try. There’s always compromses in terms of form factor and usability when you combine small electronic gizmos that were developed independantly. Even with smartphones, it’s a struggle. Many would consider the P900 to be too big to be a good phone and too small to be a good PDA.
[quote author=“tifosiv122”]The fall of cameras? Please…I can really see professionals use a phone to take pictures for magazines and newspapers…can you imagine your wedding being shot on a phone?
Yes, eventually higher MP cameras will stop the novice user from owning a digi, but in no way can you possibly dream that cameras will be shelved for phone/cameras.
I’d love to see someone try to shove a decent optical zoom into something the size of a T616. “Honey, is that your phone zoom, or are you just happy to see me?”
Not to mention battery life…both digicams and cell phones chew up battery life…having a decent camera and phone in one would require frequent charges or numerous batteries.
IMO camera phones (real ones, not the crap thats being sold today) will only mainstream when the new Cell networks G-whatever allows for real-time video conference…then I think there would be a substantial market…but then again the camera would still be sub MP anyway…
[quote author=“tifosiv122”]
IMO camera phones (real ones, not the crap thats being sold today) will only mainstream when the new Cell networks G-whatever allows for real-time video conference…then I think there would be a substantial market…but then again the camera would still be sub MP anyway…
Erik
I have to wonder, really. The picturephone, the videophone were all hard sells and failed. Video conferences and video chats are still “arranged” connections. Are you prepared to be on-camera every time the phone rings? Are you prepared to be rude and not turn on your camera? In a worst case scenario, are you prepared to explain WHY you won’t turn on the camera?
Beyond social dynamics, even with high speed networks and decent resolution, where’s the camera going to be pointing when the handset is to your ear? Of course you could use a headset and hold the phone in front of you or find some place to set it. A pretty much useless technology IMHO.
Wait longer. The day of the all-in-one device will never get here. There’s no way to get all the functionality of many diverse devices into one package without compromise. Various failures like the VCR/TV combos and those crappy printer/fax things at Staples are just a few examples. XP and XP apps won’t fit on a PDA screen the size of my P900’s. It will be a long time before PDA or phone cameras will get to the point where they can compete with the quality of an entry-level digicam.
Not true. Cellphone cameras have hit the 1MP and the 3MP range already. I just got back from the Philippines, where they debuted some new model that already had MP quality prints. Still, I don’t give much of a damn about phones, only because in the end, no matter how many accessories it has, it’s still a PHONE. For CALLING. Still, you raise an interesting point about hybrids. Hehe, I like VCR/TVs though.
[quote author=“Drachen”] Tifo and I aren’t saying that integration is bad or won’t happen.
Ah, but you did.
[quote author=“Drachen”] The day of the all-in-one device will never get here.
I’m sure you meant the Win XP part, though. The bottom line that we have already identified is that you both are realists, which is OK. I am an idealist / optimist. Basically that means that you are 100% right for now, and I will be 100% right later.
[quote author=“nox”]Not true. Cellphone cameras have hit the 1MP and the 3MP range already. I just got back from the Philippines, where they debuted some new model that already had MP quality prints. Still, I don’t give much of a damn about phones, only because in the end, no matter how many accessories it has, it’s still a PHONE. For CALLING. Still, you raise an interesting point about hybrids. Hehe, I like VCR/TVs though.
~nox
Digital cameras are a moving target too. 1Mpx camera phones are just hitting the market, but entry-level digital cameras are in the 2-4 Mpx range these days. That’s in addition to the cameras having decent flashes and optical zooms. The only camera phone I’ve seen that really tries to keep the camera form factor is the SE s700 and that’s still only a 1.3 Mpx camera, no optical zoom and I’m not sure it has a built-in flash or not.
[quote author=“dbs”]
I have to wonder, really. The picturephone, the videophone were all hard sells and failed. Video conferences and video chats are still “arranged” connections. Are you prepared to be on-camera every time the phone rings? Are you prepared to be rude and not turn on your camera? In a worst case scenario, are you prepared to explain WHY you won’t turn on the camera?
Beyond social dynamics, even with high speed networks and decent resolution, where’s the camera going to be pointing when the handset is to your ear? Of course you could use a headset and hold the phone in front of you or find some place to set it. A pretty much useless technology IMHO.
I totally agree with this. Maybe it will be OK for the business sector, though. I can see Sales Managers calling their reps just to make sure they are not still in their boxers at 11am.
[quote author=“Drachen”]
Digital cameras are a moving target too. 1Mpx camera phones are just hitting the market, but entry-level digital cameras are in the 2-4 Mpx range these days. That’s in addition to the cameras having decent flashes and optical zooms. The only camera phone I’ve seen that really tries to keep the camera form factor is the SE s700 and that’s still only a 1.3 Mpx camera, no optical zoom and I’m not sure it has a built-in flash or not.
There is a good point here. When tapeless digicams hit the market, and become very small, they will become difficult to displace by a phone. Throw in the fact that they will carry higher MP still shots, and I could see them being stand alone. So instead of one device, maybe we could settle for just two.
PDA / Phone / MP3 player / Radio / BT / MMC card slot for expansion / Speakerphone (check the upcoming Nokia 6230)
and…
Tapeless Digicam / 5MP camera (very small)
Its still integration nonetheless. How bout that, gentlemen?
